Add 5 years and $1B for rail, federal agency says
DENNIS ODA / DODA@STARADVERTISER.COM
This is the view of the progress of the HART mass transit rail construction along Kamehameha Hwy. in Waimalu looking westward toward Puu Poni Street.
Honolulu rail’s federal partners say they estimate the transit project won’t be completed until December 2024 — about five years behind the original schedule — while costing $900 million to $1.2 billion more than local rail officials’ latest price estimate.
The Federal Transit Administration’s estimate of how long it will take to finish rail, provided in a statement from an agency spokeswoman Monday, exceeds the latest estimate provided by the local Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation by more than two years.
Under the city’s 2012 funding agreement with the FTA — a deal that secured $1.55 billion in federal funds for rail — project officials agreed to complete the entire 20-mile project by the end of 2019 and provide service from East Kapolei to Ala Moana Center by Jan. 30, 2020.
The FTA’s statement did not say why it will take so much more to complete Oahu’s transit project.
“They just don’t think we’re going to progress as quickly as our staff does,” HART board member Mike Formby, who also serves as the city Department of Transportation Services director, said Monday. Formby and board Chairwoman Colleen Hanabusa sat in on meetings with FTA officials on Oahu last week to discuss the budget and schedule challenges facing rail.
“We will work with HART to ensure it is taking every reasonable measure to mitigate cost overruns and minimize the delay in opening the project,” the FTA statement read.
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It confirmed what Formby and Hanabusa revealed several days ago: that the federal agency contends rail will cost as much as $8.1 billion to finish. However, the FTA also clarified Monday that its cost estimate is at least $900 million more than HART’s latest estimate, not $700 million as Hanabusa and Formby had stated. Formby said Monday that the $700 million figure was an error on their part.
HART and the FTA will now try to sort out the differences in their estimates. Local officials, meanwhile, will grapple with how best to guide a transit project on course to exceed its budget by as much as $1.3 billion.
They also have come under criticism about rail — currently the nation’s most expensive such transit project per capita by far and the largest public works project in state history — as its costs continue to climb.
“I’m very disappointed but I’m not surprised,” City Councilwoman Ann Kobayashi, the Council’s budget chairwoman and longtime critic of HART, said Monday of the latest federal estimates.
“There are some who say it might go up to $10 billion. It’s not a good situation to be in,” Kobayashi added. “You look at all those columns going up … it’s sad.”
Kobayashi’s colleague on the Council, Transportation Chairman Joey Manahan, called it “unrealistic” to say rail officials could rein in costs by about $1 billion and still keep the project as a useful public transit alternative to the H-1 freeway.
“How much can you really cut from the project and maintain all those things?” Manahan said Monday. “At some point you’re going to have to think about another (general excise tax surcharge) extension or some other source to make up the difference. So whether that’s going to be property taxes or some other revenue stream, those things have to be discussed.”
Manahan said HART has done a poor job handling the budget information and “sticker shock” for rail — and that it’s eroding public trust in those managing the project. “They have to get a better handle on the numbers they’re giving us,” he said.
Meanwhile, Council Chairman Ernie Martin said in a statement that he does not support extending the GET surcharge past its agreed-upon levels in this year’s five-year rail tax extension. Thus, Martin wrote, “going back to the Legislature is not an option.”
Instead, Martin called on rail’s “public and private partners (to) step forward with additional capital investments” to help make up the looming budget shortfall.
Martin’s political rival, Mayor Kirk Caldwell, praised the “openness and transparency” of Formby and Hanabusa, who remain Caldwell’s two top allies on the HART board.
“We will work collectively with the Honolulu City Council Chair and Council members, the HART board, and the Federal Transit Administration on a path forward to deliver this important transit project to Oahu’s residents,” Caldwell, a longtime rail supporter, said in a statement Monday. “The only way to solve this is to work together.”
218 responses to “Add 5 years and $1B for rail, federal agency says”
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Insane. 10 billion dollars divided all the people on Oahu would buy every family a new car. And the dirty little secret is, cars are more efficient than half empty trains. And you can bypass traffic congestion with dedicated bus lanes or put the express buses on the already built guideways.
I agree, use the guideways as built and add express bus lanes from West Kapolei into town. Why ask for more taxes from from the locals… The state needs some kind of public lottery to fund the rest of the $$ for the completion of the rail system!!!!
The rail could save some money by firing paid rail bloggers like ukuleleblue.
got that right. in fact, fire all of the HART drones.
uku is only paid $.50 per post by the stepfather, Grabby, so no big savings there.
Every little bit helps.
Or you can save money by running the rail from Kapolei to Waipahu and stop there.
Awright! Stop the project and stand in line for your new car!
It appears that the taxpayers cannot stop the city from building rail endlessly even if the cost reaches $30 to $40 Billion!
The city can even continue to build rail to Hawaii Kai and around the entire island because NO ONE can stop their authority to continue to build at this time!
Can anyone out there dispute this argument? If yes, why are we still talking about allowing the city to continue to build rail despite the ever increasing cost rather than terminating rail to freeze the cost to what’s available?
Hanabusa, do you have an answer?
Yeah 5 more years of collecting on the side.
STOP with the excuses for raising the rail cost! It is time to freeze the cost by terminating rail at Aloha Stadium for less than $4 Billion TOTAL!!!
Empty parking spaces are available during the weekdays at Aloha Stadium which provide an ideal location for a “park and ride” bus transit center for express buses destined to Windward Oahu, the Airport/Pearl Harbor, downtown Honolulu and beyond.
Absolutely STOP IT AT THE STADIUM. The reality is we could have used that money or can possibly use the money saved to air condition our schools, fix our pot hole ridden highways, clean and properly take care of our parks & beaches etc. etc. etc.
They want it to go to a mall, then stop it at Pearl Ridge. Better yet get a federal investigation to see where all this money is being filtered to and require the guilty parties to deconstruct and return Waipahu and Pearl City to it’s original state. Anyone that thought this was a good idea was nuts or in on the take.
berry, I would absolutely love to see Waipahu and PC back to how is was and should be.
Too late it’s already past the stadium.
Rail should include Waianae Coast
$8.1 billion divided by 940,000 residents equates to $8,617 in taxes they need to charge every single resident! That tax is on the low side since some don’t pay taxes due to low incomes and some in poverty. Expect them to collect closer to $12,000 in future taxes from every tax paying resident! For $12k I could have bought enough monthly unlimited ride bus passes to last me 200 years!
Keep voting for the same long serving corrupt (D) Politicians Hawaii, you’re getting exactly what you deserve.
They’re going to make the tax extension permanent right after Ige runs for re-election, it’s been their plan all along.
Imagine what could have been done to upgrade Honolulu with all that money. This will be the worst decision for years to come. The HART will only be a money pit for all of Hawaii and will never relieve the traffic issue. You have to be brought up with using public transportation as the first option and Hawaii people won’t give up their cars.
Exactly. Return on Investment. What is the best use of that money for the good of the society and economy? Roads, sewers, water supply, zircon in the schools, housing for low income and homeless, intelligent traffic systems, improved social services, etc. But, no, our elected officials are heck-bent on building Rail regardless of whatever it costs us.
Election day is November 8th.
The solution to rail’s never ending cost increases, shoddy management from Grabby and HART, and construction delays is to end rail at Middle Street. Saving over two billion dollars, years of torn up streets, traffic gridlock, lower monthly O&M costs.
Arriving at Middle Street, buses will be waiting to whisk riders to their place of work and back at the end of the day. No other rail stop beyond this location can offer this type of transportation services.
We must end rail at Middle Street to save our children and grandchildren from becoming work drones to pay for rail’s crushing monthly O&M costs, lowering their quality of life.
End it at Middle Street. Ok with the Feds as it shows we are serious about cleaning up this rail debacle.
According to the party (Caldwell, HART) that went to Washington, the route can’t end at Middle St. without penalty. Is Caldwell/HART lying to us ?
Everybody in HART is lying to us!
In yesterday’s article it stated the Feds were open to any plan for reducing the Nei’s rail debacle. Ending at Middle Street is the best way to do it.
We have to get this financial money pit under control. Middle Street is the answer.
And as I have always said, never, ever, ever, trust an elected bureaucrat. They will lie, cheat, steal, do what ever it takes to take care of #1.
RUSTY THE HATED SCREECHING RAIL REARS ITS UGLY HEAD AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN. It just won’t stop the lies and deception from HART & OUR CITY OFFICIALS & COUNCIL AND MOST IMPORTANTLY OUR ROTTEN MAYOR. Caldwell NEEDS TO RESIGN IN SHAME.
Who the hell is going to ride the rail to Middle Street? If it doesn’t go to at least downtown, scrap the project. In my opinion, this thing needs to go to UH. Wonder why traffic looks so much better when UH is not in session?
All lies from the very start. Numbers were all pulled from someone’s a$$. Raise your hand if you bought it hook, line, and sinker. You are to blame.
ponojr – It makes no sense to spend billions of dollars, tear up city streets for years to underground power lines and move large water mains plus all the other related work to be done just to take rail to a shopping center.
Fewer rail stations will also mean fewer miles of track and stations to maintain, fewer overpaid union workers.
Middle Street Bus Terminal is the logical location to end rail. Seamless for riders to get off, their bus waiting to whisk them right to their work place. Repeat the process in the evening.
Exactly why this is what will be done.
End at middle street but no train because we still don’t know the cost of maintenance and where the power will come from. Also electrical lines will still need to be buried along existing rail lines. Better to use it for a movie set and blow the whole thing up
I don’t agree with Ala Moana as the final destination. Who cares. Since it’s not going to UH, then at least downtown where a lot of commuters take the bus to everyday.
Brah, just finish it . You no gang,stop yappering. The bugga is moving well. It’s going to hit middle before christmas.
Exactly! Both state and local government have just don’t give a flying squirrel about the people. It about landowners, unions and business.
You hit the nail on the head beany. Politicians and their special interest groups rule. It’s all about money. People and the aina?….Throw the kupuna out on the streets to become homeless and screw the aina since developer money trumps preservation. REALLY, people of Hawaii what are we becoming??
NanakuliBoss you’re talking from where the sun don’t shine.
A NO vote for Caldwell and Martin.
Agree. Can imagine what $8 billion could have done to our infrastructure and keep the construction workers happy. Our schools would be nice and shinny with air conditioning, no water or sewer problems, more streets to ease traffic, an updated traffic system to also ease traffic, clean parks, a solution to our homeless situation and still have billions leftover.
Take only one billion and spread it around. The whole island could have benefited. The reality is this rail is killing Waipahu and Pearl City businesses along the route and coming to a street near you.
kira, with that kind of money spent wisely there would be no homeless, schools would all have the newest and best facilities with air conditioning, infrastructure modernized, and we could build a super prison to keep criminals off the street. These are the PRIMARY issues at hand. Well dressed crooks with crocodile smiles run our government. Legal highway robbery is what is taking place in our beautiful paradise gone wrong.
STOP with the excuses for raising the rail cost! It is time to freeze the cost by terminating rail at Aloha Stadium for less than $4 Billion TOTAL!
Empty parking spaces are available during the weekdays at Aloha Stadium which provide an ideal location for a “park and ride” bus transit center for express buses destined to Windward Oahu, the Airport/Pearl Harbor, downtown Honolulu and beyond.
Rail terminating at stadium is no worse, traffic wise, than rail termination at Ala Moana Center, FACT! The MAJOR taxpayer benefit is freezing the cost to under $ 4 Billion! Let the developers provide the funds to extend to Ala Moana as they are the ones reaping the benefits to their TODs!
Rail does NOT eliminate the traffic gridlock at the H-1/H-2 merge because rail carries only 3000 commuters per hour town bound and the year 2025 demand exceeds 15,000 commuters per hour per the city’s traffic analysis.
Imagine if they’d taken just $10 million, used it to educate/get people off the “my-car-is-my-identity” way of thinking. More people take the bus, traffic problem solved! No HART, no Hanabusa, no ukuleleblue!
If anyone thought that rail would relieve traffic congestion than you are in fantasy land. Japan has the subways, the bullet train amd traffic, San Francisco has the BART and need funds to improve the system but still heavy traffic, Atlanta, Georgia has their rail and heavy traffic. if you live on the Westside, you will need transportation to get to the rail station in Kapolei. The rail station is not in walking distance in Kapolei for most so called users of the rail who already rely on the bus system. This rail was totally political and fueled with greed.
Wow. Is rail news ever positive?
No.
Only when they lie, which is most of the time.
We all need to be more positive about rail. We need to focus more on the long range future need for rail infrastructure. It is decades from now that rail will absolutely be needed to solve the ever increasing traffic congestion from overpopulation. Like it or not, with all the hi-rises coming up we are literally getting to be like Hong Kong. This is the best place on earth and everyone wants to live here. The main problem is that construction costs skyrocketed from our booming economy. We needed to get the rail done before costs got out of reach. Rail needs to be built in our urban core for the transportation mobility that will be difficult decades from now. Middle Street to downtown is essential in beating traffic congestion in urban corridor. We need to evolve into a less car-centric community. We need to build now to be able to handle the transportation challenges of the future. Rail costs a lot now but will cost much, much more later.
uku – Sorry but twice nothing is still nothing. You just can’t admit rail as been a mismanaged debacle from day one. Your useless shibai posts trying to spin this debacle as a “Win – Win” fail miserable.
More and more smart people are seeing Middle Street as the answer. Ok with the Feds, it is the only way to rein in this out of control money pit.
Middle Street Main Bus Terminal is the only logical answer to ending this financial money pit. It will help reduce rail’s crushing monthly O&M costs so our children and grandchildren to not become work drones to subsidize rail.
The idea of stopping rail at the airport and building it out to Kapolei is a viable alternative. Tourism is the #1 attraction to this island and the concentration in Honolulu/Waikiki is slowly destroying the quality of the experience (let alone the increasing homeless problem). Transporting tourists from the airport directly to new resorts on the west end will establish thousands of new jobs out there and reduce the need to travel into the city for workers who live out there, thus reducing traffic.
uku=BS !
mistakes have been made as with any new enterprise. The important thing is that the mistakes have been fixed. Rail is well worth the effort and we learn from our mistakes.
wiliki – Wrong again as usual. Not all the mistakes have been fixed as the final cost for rail is still unknown. FTA gave a much better estimate than HART or Grabby.
Lessons learned are not. Somewhere else, someone else has already made the same mistakes and fixed the problem. Fact is neither Grabby or HART, or anyone involved with rail did the required due diligence to ensure the Nei did not repeat the same mistakes. Failed to check with every USA city with rail to learn how to do it right.
First mistake was hiring an incompetent person like Grabby. Failed at Boston’s Big Dig, failing at the Nei’s rail debacle.
Fire Grabby now. Replace all the HART members. Take out the trash.
Ukuleleblue said: “We all need to be more positive about rail.”
I’m positive that you are a paid rail shill that lives on the mainland or works at Alii Tower.
I’m positive that the Oahu rail project is the biggest boondoggle in US history on a per capita basis.
I’m positive that that HART’s ridership projections will fail.
I’m positive that my property taxes will get raised to subsidize this mess.
I’m positive that the rail will cost more than 8.1 billion..
See how positive I am about rail?
Don’t be surprised if the final bill will be over 10 billion dollars. In today’s dollars the annual maintenance is projected to be an astronomical amount too.
ukuleleblue says: “We all need to be more positive about rail.”
No. YOU need to read the story you are commenting on and not be so comically out-of-touch on the issue with your repetitive boilerplate cut-n-paste spam.
So what do you you think about HART’s most recent “we promise guys, we finally go a handle on costs this time so please give us a tax extension and we will promise to be transparent and get our act together.” That lasted, what, two months?
Even the FTA is calling them on it now.
So, is today the day you finally have the strength of character to tell everyone where it is that you’ve not he mainland and what your connection is to mess of a rail project?
Now,
Absolutely. If rail is not in the urban core then housing will expand all over the island to take up the slack. We will have urban sprawl. That is NOT a future for those who follow us kupuna.
Rail is creating massive urban sprawl why you keep lying
@wiliki: Housing is expanding all over the island anyways. That’s what Ho’opili and Koa Ridge are. If anything, rail is making further urban sprawl possible. Your argument is a joke dude!
ukus and we-licky, If impatience and traffic are your primary concerns in life people like you have caused this multi billion dollar fiasco. Why do you want to waste this kind of money when people are in need and we live on a tiny island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean that needs preservation? A train is not going to provide homes or put food on the table. Entitlement attitudes will realize too late.
Building unauthorised structures on ag land is urban sprawl. Hoopii and Koa Ridge are not. These are in the planned urban core,
wiliki says: “Building unauthorised structures on ag land is urban sprawl. Hoopii and Koa Ridge are not.”
As usual, you are completely wrong. How does that not bother you?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/urban%20sprawl
Senile “Kupuna” shame on you using the word alone with your comments you are a disgrace to all Kupuna.
Not really costing us more later. We shouldn’t have done this steel on steel elevated nonsense. Wrong technology. If I had been the master planner behind this, I wouldn’t have selected the route it took either. It’s basically an elevated bus route at many times the cost of an express bus system. Neithet would I have recommended the contract package we got. Only experts can save money like that, and we have none. Far better to do EPC turnkey for the inexperienced. Sad to say I would have supported a rail if it was done competently. But this was the worst combination of falling into every classic pitfall.
oops, sorry truth hurts
Yeah right. People, Priorities and Progress?
People = the heck about the people , Priorities= take care of union, big business, landowners, etc. Progress= non whatsoever. LOL
crookwell = his people, his priorities, and progress for himself
Great assessment of the situation. Poli=many, tics=blood sucking creature.
All facors notes, Build a freeway out in ocean (half moon shped beyond Pearl Harbor) to direct Waianae Coast traffic connecting somewhere by Reef Runway.
Lagoon drive?
Mufi’s folly crunches on.
It appears the City of Boston fired grabby for reasons similar to what we are facing now. So, why doesn’t the HART board do same? Is it because they’re in cahoots with grabby, the developers, the contractors, cladwell, the city council, PRP and fiends? Or is it because they lack the c*hon*s to do so? Probably both.
SA, why haven’t you reported on grabby’s firing by the Boston transit authority. No investigative reporters, or are you maintaining silence due to its possible effect on ad revenue — you know cladwell’s reelection campaign, the City Council, and future ad revenue from HART to schmaltz their way through their snowballing costs of the rail, maintenance, and electrical power supply.
This toy choo-choo does not run on a Lionel transformer, eh, nicht wahr. Oh, yeah, you’re going to put PV arrays all along the track, the stations, the toy choo-choo parking lots, and the toy choo-choo itself to power the little mighty mite. Dream on. And ub ub boo and his fellow shills will have a lifetime job justifying ad nauseam the skyrocketing costs!
Better question would be why did Oahu hire grabby in first place?
because somebody is getting $$$.
The city hired Grabourmoney&run to take the “blame” as the project falls into disrepair. Same for HART as they were hoping to take the heat off of the politicians like Carlyle, Coldwell, Horner, Yoshioka, Matin, Anderson, Horimoto, Ccachola
and the Garcia’s that run Oahu’s Democratic politics. basically a scapegoat to take the blame off of the real culprits
They knew he would mess this up and it wasn’t about a train but a money grab so they needed a scapegoat.
The City of Boston apparently fired grabby for his performance, or lack thereof, with their rail transit system. Did he lack something in the aptitude department for them to have done so. Why hasn’t the HART board of directors looked at the reasons he was let go? Are they lacking in c*hon*s, or are they simply in cahoots with the powers that be — the developers, the contractors, PRP, the unions, cladwell, city council, and fiends? Boston let him go under a similar clause in the HART contract – he was fired, but given one year severance. Our popular newspaper and TV media haven’t even given a squeak at his previous ouster. What gives? Does ad revenue mean that much. Is the web of conspiracy extend that widely into the city and the state’s power elite?
SA, why haven’t you reported on grabby’s firing by the Boston transit authority? What, no investigative reporters, or are you maintaining silence due to its possible effect on ad revenue — you know cladwell’s reelection campaign, the City Council, and future ad revenue from HART to schmaltz their way through their snowballing costs of the rail, maintenance, and electrical power supply.
This toy choo-choo does not run on a Lionel transformer, eh, nicht wahr. Oh, yeah, you’re going to put PV arrays all along the track, the stations, the toy choo-choo parking lots, and the toy choo-choo itself to power the little mighty mite. Dream on. And ub ub boo and his fellow shills will have a lifetime job justifying ad nauseam the skyrocketing costs!
Property tax, GET, and taxpayers of Hawaii and the C&C of Honolulu, wake up! Don’t let ub ub boo and his fellow shills pull the pili grass over your eyes1
Joey Manahan should not be leading Chair of Transportation. His comments speak volumes of his thinking that we have to built rail no matter what the cost is if it is necessary to raise property taxes or extend the GET he would support that. This councilman has never said anything or promoted anything that is good for the citizens of Honolulu. Just another young no experience easily bought politician.
Hopefully his thoughts of raising property taxes or an extension are outvoted. But, I would not be surprised if it passed.
How high can this price tag go to make it absolutely impossible for the residents of Oahu to be able to withstand the cost? Someone out there with an idea? Take the total population, not including tourists. What is the cost to the resident? Seems to me local government has these big glorious ideas and are totally ignoring the consequences. Of course they have a self interest in seeing this go through. Isn’t it amazing what politicians will do to their own neighbors for a buck.
Berry, at 8.1 billion, we are close to the brink. On Oahu, there are about 1.3 million people and about 400,000 actual taxpayers, not including tourists.
While the rail shills claim we “barely feel” the taxes, we are paying for it every single day with every single purchase we make. Whether it’s a plate lunch or a can of soda, we are paying for the rail and it looks like the tax will end up being eternal.
$8.1 billion divided by 940,000 residents equates to $8,617 in taxes they need to charge every single resident! That tax is on the low side since some don’t pay taxes due to low incomes and some in poverty. Expect them to collect closer to $12,000 in future taxes from every tax paying resident! For $12k I could have bought enough monthly unlimited ride bus passes to last me 17 years!
“At some point you’re going to have to think about another (general excise tax surcharge) extension or some other source to make up the difference.”
Typical of Manahan. No fiscal responsibility and accountability or the cost to our economy. No consideration of alternatives or cost cutting. Just tax and spend, tax and spend.
Election Day is November 8th.
One must remember Manahan has one and only one priority. Taking care of #1. Agreed his comments prove he is unfit to serve, hasn’t got a clue, lacks all traces of professionalism. Best deal would be for him to resign. Legend in his own mind.
Yep. A has been that never was.
on budget and on time, mr. caldwell? phhppht!
it just keeps getting better and better!
Twice as long, twice as much. I’ve been saying it for years. Looks like I’m going to have to revise it up.
We wish it was twice as long and twice as much. The original budget proposed by moofi was 3.7 billion.
My estimate: 12 – 12.5 billion.
My estimate: Between 12 and 16 billion
Way to go FTA. Their latest revelation about our money pit rail system, years behind schedule, final costs closer to $10 billion, perfectly supports claims by anti railers from day one with rail. Yessssssss!!!!!
Just goes to show how utterly incompetent Grabby and his HART minions have been, will continue to be. Clear proof Grabby does not deserve any more pay raises or bonus payments. If anything there should be a “Claw Back” of money as he never earned it.
Can’t wait to see rail losers ukuleleblue and wiliki try and spin this new information on rail cost overruns and schedule failures a “Win – Win.” Give it up, you lose..
ukuleleblue will just tell us to stay the course and wiliki will blame it all on Ernie.
Election Day is November 8th.
How about estimating the fare and maintenance costs, another 100 million plus? Lets get the final numbers HART!!Coming into town will add another 2-3 billion to its budget. So with that said, end the rail at Middle St.
HART estimates that there will be 119,000 daily weekday riders (SA article dated 4/3/16). If Honolulu fall into the same projection percentages that other cities had, then we will have about 30,000 to 40,000 daily weekday riders. With 119,000 daily riders, the operation and maintenance cost was going to be over 10 million dollars a month. WHEN the ridership projections fail, the operation and maintenance fees will skyrocket like all other rail related costs and will likely be paid for by increase property taxes.
Bogus numbers
Keolu got the correct figures above from HART. A bit too generous to HART on the operating figures.
Wee willy wiliki, if the numbers are bogus, you can blame that on HART. They are the source of those numbers.
Maybe you should think before you speak.
That’s the problem weewee is a senile self proclaimed “Kupuna”
Bogus numbers? The study that was done by PB for the city said 120,00 daily trips. The city says 119,000 daily weekday riders. BTW, PB also did the study for the Tren Urbano in Puerto Rico, and also said their train should get 110,000 daily riders, in reality, the Tren Urbano got an average of 35-38,000 daily riders (oh, did I mention Puerto Rico has a population of over 3 million).
Since you and UB like to use Seattle’s Link light rail for examples, Link light rail serves 3 counties in Seattle with a total population of over 3 million people. Link light rail has an average daily ridership of just under 45,000 riders daily.
2 examples of areas with a population base 3 times what Oahu has, yet can’t even hit 50,000 daily riders. I think the bogus numbers are the one coming out of HART’s office.
“””Formby said Monday that the $700 million figure was an error on their part.”””
“””HART has done a poor job handling the budget information and “sticker shock” for rail — and that it’s eroding public trust in those managing the project.”””
That says it all.
It’s only a poor job because figures are not ready for release. HART’s projected costs are reasonable given the last budget which the feds accepted.
What’s in store for the next few months is for the feds and HART to get together and work out their differences.
wiliki, aren’t you tired of the stench from what you are shoveling here?
Who do you think you’re helping by string random words together?
wiliki – Shibai post again, your standard. HART has been utterly incompetent from day one. No clue about how to do professional financial management. !10 million here, $50 million there, $200 million over their. No way to track taxpayer’s money, no fiduciary sense of responsibility at all.
We would do well to fire Grabby, clean house at HART, start all over again. Meantime end rail at Middle Street. It is the only logical choice.
And why is the Federal estimate more believable then the one the city threw out. Looks l Ike the federal government has a better handle on this rail project.
More senile words from weewee self proclaimed “Kupuna”
wiliki is bogus!!! wiliki is a rational human being in his own mind!
Let’s extend the rail to UH Manoa! Let’s extend the rail to Ko Olina! Let’s build a rail spur into Waikiki! Let’s build a rail spur to Mililani!
Tell us who will pay for these rail spurs. The city will be in bankruptcy soon.
irt shellback, don’t forget a spur to Uranus
Let’s raise the GET surcharge tax! Again! And Again! And Again!
Let’s raiser property tax!
What The Hell, let’s raise all the fargen taxes possible to send this community into the chiittt hole.
Everything I see this post, I gotta laugh. Could it be Spam or is the poster just so clueless about rail. I’d like to say spam, but I could be wrong and the poster could be that clueless.
C’mon, level with us. You’re being sarcastic, right?
If rail was started decades ago we could build to all these places.
We can’t. Not enough money.
ukuleleblue says:
If rail was started decades ago we could build to all these places.
Actually, if rail was started decades ago, we would end up with 2 senerios. Either it would still be under construction, cause you know any state or city construction project takes forever to be built. OR, it would be in such disrepair, well, you all know how good the city is in up keeping what they have now.
Why are you focused on the past that was decades ago? Deal with REALITY. The PRESENT. With what IS. Perhaps that is why your posts are so baseless and without practical application.
No. Wrong technology for Honolulu. We needed something like rubberized rolling stock to handle grade better. Part of the reason it’s so costly is the inability of the steel on steel technology to handle grade.
if my aunt had testicles-she’d be my uncle.
Just more mainland BS from unko.
Hey Caldwell. The only way to solve this is to fire all you monkeys and stop this choo choo train to nowhere.
Caldwell is doing an outstanding job.
HART’s projections are only 20% more than their last accepted (by the feds) budget over many years. Their last contingency in the accepted budget alowed about 20% expansion in costs so this new estimate is NOT unexpected. Their latest projection is technically within budget – even with the 20% increase.
wiliki, aren’t you tired of the stench from what you are shoveling here?
Without rail, our children and grandchildren have no future.
Why? Most of our children and grandchildren won’t receive any benefit from rail. However, they will be taxed forever to pay for rail. Everytime they see a movie, or buy a candy bar for stick of gum, they will be paying for the rail.
wiliki – by the time rail is finished, our children will have grown up and left for the mainland.
wiliki – By my count you have published this utterly shibai statement 27 times. Sad to see when confronted with the truth rail is 200% over budget with no end in sight, years behind schedule with no firm completion date, you post your usual shibai.
With rail, our children and grandchildren will forever be lower class “Work Drones” sending most of their pay out to cover the crushing monthly O&M costs of money pit rail. Exactly why they will leave the Nei for a more successful life on the mainland.
wiliki – Sad to see you do your standard “Copy & Paste” of the same old recycled shibai, totally irrelevant to this article. You have used this exact same post about 17 times, boring.
Just can’t admit antirailers have been 100% accurate and correct about rail. Over budget, years behind schedule, nothing but shibai from Grabby & HART. Their standard.
Come back when you have an accurate, truthful post. We will be waiting…………
Caldwell is doing a ROTTEN JOB AND NEEDS TO RESIGN IN SHAME. He has destroyed old Waipahu town & the slums & Ghettos
are getting worse. Now Cladwell is working to destroy Pearl City and NEXT will be parts of Aiea. everywhere the RUSTING RAIL goes the Slums & Ghetto’s are sure to follow. The last 3 mayors all had their hand out and the Unions and PAC’s like PRP and John white had them by the B#a!lls and slowly squeezed the people out so that only they were heard.
You need to get it straight. You and your rail buddies seem to forget that the original cost of this system voted for by the taxpayers back in 2005-2006 was $3.5 Billion. Now it’s $8.1 Billion and there seems to be no end in sight of it going up even further because just 3 months ago, it was $6.57 Billion. Stop lying!
More senile words from a self proclaimed “Kupuna”
Wow such DENIAL and INCOMPETENCE, its disgusting. Its all fine just raise taxes, WTFark, NO way brah.
This thing as more than doubled from the 3 billion that MOFEE said it should cost.
So many LIES and CORRUPTION this is insane already, STOP THE MADNESS !
Time to tear it down.
I totally agree use the cement to build homeless shelters. Blowing it up would make for a great movie set, train and all.
All the taxpayers with intelligence figured it out when the “powers that be” lowballed estimates and inflated ridership projections to encourage the masses to go with this fiasco. Even the voting was rigged as it wasn’t a straight question which confused most everyone.
Then PRP and the PRP Aunty said “Don’t worry as we’ll use the SUN to power this thing”.
DISGUSTING……………
Don’t forget the lack of ballots at polling places, too. The fix was in.
And don’t forget about the giant truck that “accidentally” crashed into the freeway median on Halloween Day just before people were to vote on a steel on steel rail system.
The fix was in.
And blank votes were counted as a yes vote.
ON TIME, ON BUDGET AND BUILT RIGHT This is exactly why we must vote all the idiots out of office starting with the lying Caldwell and work our way down.
We can bitch and complain all we want about rail and everything else this administration stuffs up our backsides but it will do no good unless we come together and do what is right or we will be forever held hostage by the CORRUPTION of the HAWAII DEMOCRATIC MACHINE. So lets stop the raping of hard working tax payers and vote for what we believe in not what these liars tell us. STRENGTH IN NUMBERS it is time to change the STATUS QUO.
Ernie is delaying rail. Fire Ernie.
Fire wiliki, ukuleleblue, caldwell and grabby.
HART and Mayir Caldwell got everything they have asked for, without delay, on this mess of a rail project. Further, Mayor Caldwell promised to “build rail better” and deliver it “on time and on budget.”
I think the first person you want to fire is Mayor Caldwell. Ernie Martin was the first person to lift the veil of protection that surrounds the HART insiders and commission an audit.
I told you he would say that.
Grabby is wasting taxpayer’s money by the tens of millions.
Fire Grabby as he is an incompetent babooze.
Dang – the price tag is going up by the minute. Does this mean Grabby WON’T be getting his annual bonus this year? Sure took us long enough to figure out that he was NOT a bargain.
He should pay back his bonus or they should dock his pay.
Yes. With the FTA finally telling the truth he has been stripped of any future pay raises and bonus payments. Word is a “Claw Back” process has started as he received extra pay and bonus payments based on his lies and deceit.
Why do we persist in moving forward and spend the money… We HAVE to cut our loses.. And stop it at Middle street… It’s a total travesty as a project.. We should spend only what we can… I know let’s raise the taxes again.. Isn’t that the answer in a non election year right… What is heavens name did we get ourselves into. Are you politicians listening with itching ears yet… You should vote all these rail supporters OUT of office!
why wait STOP IT NOW, IN ITS TRACKS !!!!!!!! WE ARE PEEOWED TO DA MAX
Election Day is November 8th.
Who is running that would stop rail?
If Kaaihui4mayor says they would kill rail if elected, I’d vote and campaign for Kaaihui.
What a great election slogan for Caldwell. He “did rail right” as he promised, with increased costs about a billion each year in office! What a competent fiscal manager. I guess he did rail right for PRP and the construction hui, his best buddies. He did rail for them, not homeowners or traffic alleviation. I hope his legacy is nothing noteworthy so we can forget he existed.
Caldwell will soon be forgotten. As proof, anybody remember a certain Carlyle who was once our mayor. Not many. They come and go leaving behind stench.
Martin,Manahan or Kobayashi never mentioned the lawsuits that caused delays. It’s a good thing Ann represents Manoa otherwise she would be gone.
The biggest delays were caused by the city.
@NanakuliBoss: No matter how you try to spin it, there’s no way that the lawsuits caused prices to increase by almost $3 Billion dollars over the last 2 years (from $5.3 Billion to $8.1 Billion). Also, what happened to the whole all we need to do is extend the tax by 5 years and we should have enough money to pay for the system? That fell through real quick. LOL!
You mean if Kobayashi was in any of the westside districts where all the ignorant voters are she would be gone.
No island, she’s in the geriatric district.
That’s where all the wise kupuna’s live. Established old time locals.
butinski, except kupuna wiliki, he is at the city hall care home
As the council’s budget chairwoman, she’s just taking up space. “I’m very disappointed but I’m not surprised and there are some who say it might go up to 10 billion.” “It’s not a good situation.” What has she done as the budget chairwoman? Not much of anything but to go along with the unrealistic cost because she’s clueless as far as rail construction is concerned. Budget Chairwoman is just a title for her and she’s always surprised about the unexpected escalating cost. Get out if she can’t handle the budget or knows what’s going on or questions every needed funding. Lame budget chairwoman…taking up space.
It’s because it wasn’t the lawsuits that caused the delays. I ask you, and I pray you answer it, name one lawsuit that resulted in a court ordered work stoppage by any group that was or is against this rail project.
All delays were caused and is fault of the city. Either issuing contracts early to not following the laws.
Ann is and has always been one of the most effective legislators in state and city government. She won awards for that kind of thing. She really does concern herself with all our financial situation.
Stop that dam thing now!! Or end it at the stadium, OR talk about the bankrupt situation that’s looming at the end of the tunnel.
I’m just concerned that with all the cost cutting and overly optimistic timelines, shortcuts are being taken and safety is being compromised. They have already discovered some shoddy quality and workmanship in the concrete and pilings. Quality control engineers may be pressured to pass things along for the sake of expedience and savings and that becomes very dangerous.
My guess is they cannot make the sections of rail and the pillars level so they are just pushing ahead and thinking they will just fix everything later. Forge ahead! Costs be damned! The rail must be built at all costs!
Wait till the years go by and more concrete fails. Repairing the damage will require shutting rail down while the damaged areas are cut out and repaired. Would not be surprised to find out many of the supports will start sinking.
20 Billion and 20 years later, rail begins operations……what is the big deal?
Whoever voted in favor of rail– YOU GOT IT!
No surprises here. Seems like every day we hear more and more depressing news about rail. This is going to sink the county.
Why can’t people look beyond today’s cost and have the foresight for the long range future? Decades from now we are going to have much worse traffic congestion in our urban core. We need to get the rail infrastructure built now to be prepared. If we don’t have rail our community is going to be paralyzed by traffic gridlock by the next generation. Decades from now $8 billion will look cheap.
Ukuleleblue said: “”Why can’t people look beyond today’s cost and have the foresight for the long range future? Decades from now we are going to have much worse traffic congestion in our urban core””
Because the city said rail would have little impact on traffic and the cost is getting prohibitive. Our community is going to be paralyzed with traffic gridlock with or without rail. At least without rail, the city could afford to fix our roads and sewers.
The rail shills keep talking about the traffic but rail will make traffic better. That’s why we’re wasting time and money building this boondoggle.
Rail will not make traffic better.
Nope. Consensus by majority of voters is that traffic will improve under rail.
What? Another wiliki lie? There’s no “consensus” that rail will improve traffic.
If you were pinnochio, your nose would reach the mainland by now.
Poor senile weewee the self proclaimed “Kupuna”
wiliki – Wrong again as usual. It has been a fact from day one of rail it would not make a substantial reduction in traffic. Thousands of more homes are going in with thousands of more cars on the road.
You can do a self experiment to confirm this. Put your hand in a pot of water. Displaced water is cars taken off the road by rail. Pull your hand out and thousands of new cars fill in.
There will be none to little traffic improvement in traffic by rail. Only improvement is when UH is not open for classes.
ukuleleblue says: “We need to get the rail infrastructure built now to be prepared.”
Unfortunately, Mayor Caldwell and your friends at HART are completely incapable of managing this project. This was supposed to be $2.8 billion dollar project that serve Ewa and Kapolei and went to UH and Waikiki. Now it’s a 8 BILLION project that runs from a developers new sprawl to the luxury tourist mall, and as each promise got broken, you were here shaking your Pom-poms and telling us to just keep pouring money into it and not worry about where it’s going or what we are getting in return.
Now, isn’t it time you finally had the courage to tell us all where it is that you live on the mainland and what your connection isn’t this mess of a rail project? It’s way past time.
uku – As usual you haven’t got a clue what is going on with rail. Just post what your stepfather, Grabby, sends you. Very sad.
Point is decades from now rail’s now estimated monthly O&M of $10-20 million dollars will be cheap to the $100-200 million per month. Already a crushing subsidy for our children and grandchildren to pay it will become even worse. They will become work drones with the sole purpose of providing the funds to subsidize money pit rail.
We will end rail at Middle Street to save billions and years of construction tearing up our streets, eliminate the resulting gridlock and reduce rail’s monthly O&M.
uku. Must be very hard for you to swallow the fact the anti railers have been 100% correct from day one while Grabby and his HART minions have done nothing but spread lies and shibai.
Without rail our children and grandchildren have no future.
With rail our children and grandchildren have no future.
I fixed wiliki’s error.
Yes thank you, weewee is senile and the self proclaimed rail “Kupuna”
wiliki – This is the 28th time you have copy and paste the same shibai.
With rail our children and grandchildren will forever be “Worker Drones” to provide the money to cover the crushing cost of rail’s monthly O&M.
Paying for rail will darken the Nei, more and more money required to cover the endless money pit.
F off…
Decades from now the rail will be in need of major life cycle maintenance/replacements. $8 billion and more probably. We can’t even repair our freeways and bridges well, spalling and cracking all over. Too bad for us we had to get custom stuff, because that’s a major financial disaster facing BART now, if you want a direct comparison.
As we have seen over and over and over, the Nei has a proven track record of willfully failing to fund and do the required maintenance for our roads an infrastructure. Rail will be no different. Just like the Zipmobile’s recent failures, $500 million UH maintenance backlog, freeways potholed, water and sewer mains failing.
Rail will do the same. Maintenance will not be done as required, cars will break down, there will be power failures, on and on.
PRP and Mufi/Kirk started the snowball went they expedited columns for this project from the west to town. When it should have started from Ala Moana. They also said we would lose $1.55 billion in Federal dollars. Why Honolulu would spend $10 billion for $1 billion matching is shame. They could have added more bus frequency across Oahu for $500 million. People would certainly adopt to ride theBus if they knew there would be one every 10 minutes.
There was a jump from 6.9 to 8.1 billion in only 2 months. At this rate, Kaaihue predicts it will be 13.7 Billion dollars by the end of 2025. That’s being conservative.
Formby and Hanabusa caught lying again. Who is going to believe their claim that the rail projected overrun of $700 million versus the FTA projection of
$900 million was ” a mistake”. Give me a break.
context is important. Formby said this…
“…the FTA also clarified Monday that its cost estimate is at least $900 million more than HART’s latest estimate, not $700 million as Hanabusa and Formby had stated. Formby said Monday that the $700 million figure was an error on their part.”
“Clarification”…
Would wiliki like to clarify his statement that “rail is already paid for”?
He has no answers. He only gets paid to spread the pro rail propaganda.
More empty words from the senile self proclaimed ” Rail Kupuna”.
wiliki – This was just one of thousands of failure, errors, mistakes, utter incompetence from the clueless rail bureaucrats who can’t meet the standards.
Fact. More mistakes, failures, shoddy work will come out in the coming months and years.
I heard rumor that KEWITT does not want to bid for the remaining contracts. They will take all of their equipment back to the mainland as well as their workforce of 60% of workers working on RAIL….RAIL IS A PROJECT BASED UPON LIES AND DECEPTION….Case in point: Look at the workers working on rail as you drive by,,,, NO MOA LOCALS WORKING, ONLY HAOLES…Look for yourself, you be the judge.
As we have seen over and over, mainland contractors can come in with mainland workers, put them up and feed them for less than the cost of hiring locals. Unions here have priced themselves out of jobs. Just as mainland workers completed the stadium work versus locals.
Wow $10 Billion reached just like that! Half a billion a mile. Will those railcars still be in working order when the time comes to actually haul people around…
STOP with the excuses for raising the rail cost! It is time to freeze the cost by terminating rail at Aloha Stadium for less than $4 Billion TOTAL!
Empty parking spaces are available during the weekdays at Aloha Stadium which provide an ideal location for a “park and ride” bus transit center for express buses destined to Windward Oahu, the Airport/Pearl Harbor, downtown Honolulu and beyond.
Rail terminating at stadium is no worse, traffic wise, than rail termination at Ala Moana Center because the rail still does not reach UH Manoa which was the original objective, FACT! For now, rail must stop at Aloha Stadium until another vote is taken to see how far rail should extend to!
The MAJOR taxpayer benefit is freezing the cost to under $ 4 Billion! Let the developers provide the funds to extend to Ala Moana as they are the ones reaping the benefits to their TODs!
Rail does NOT eliminate the traffic gridlock at the H-1/H-2 merge because rail carries only 3000 commuters per hour town bound and the year 2025 demand exceeds 15,000 commuters per hour per the city’s traffic analysis.
Ukuleleblue does not have anything else to say to back up rail . He knows it was a failure to begin with.
As Grabby’s out of wedlock child, uku posts what Dad provides, earns $.50 per post.
Five years? That’s about what Caldwell should get in prison.
To stop Rail and Caldwell from moving forward the way it’s going is to stop feeding them with taxpayers moneys. Can’t understand why we keep feeding these monsters.
is there going to be someone with a allas big enough to run for mayor as the stop rail candidate?
So will it be a little over a decade before we start rolling all the way to Ala Moana? The greatest challenges still lie ahead for rail, such as TOD, infrastructure, subsidies, (inevitable) constitutional challenges, etc.
What Martin proposes as to public and private partners makes sense. More taxes should be a last option, if at all. Furthermore, we should already be having discussions for these proposed developments and initiatives along the rail line for public input. The public has a right to know about the risks and contingencies. It might even make a GET tax increase a little more palatable.
Whoever is our next Mayor, we need leadership. Looking back, they chose to look for someone to blame to justify the delays and cost over runs. But at the end of the day, what good did that do anyone?
They could have chosen to be more transparent and accountable, but did not.
Frankly, the worst thing of all is their MO. You would think that any council member would be insane to start talking about raising property taxes now. And the only alternative currently being discussed is to extend the tax surcharge. But in reality, no one wants to say that the increase must become a permanent one. Where is the leadership?
Rail is not going to Ala Moana, will stop at Middle Street. This will save billions, years of torn up streets, reduce the crushing monthly O&M cost of rail.
This is perfectly Ok with the FTA as it shows the Nei is serious about cleaning up this ongoing, endless, financial debacle.
O&M usually is fairly constant with modern rails, so I don’t foresee significant drop there with such a small reduction in track. If rolling stock is also reduced, maybe.
yearly operating cost is estimated to be 100 million dollars per year.
CKMSurf – What you failed to understand is when rail ends at Middle Street, by the diagram at the link below, you completely eliminate 8 transit stations, their construction/maintenance, electrical usage, all related workers, and several miles of rail track.
This will reduce rail’s forecast $10-20 million per month O&M costs. Saving taxpayers big time. Exactly why rail will end at Middle Street where buses will be waiting to whisk riders to their place of work and return them to the station for their ride home.
Ref: http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/dailypix/2009/Apr/12/M1132666412.GIF
Enough complaints and frustration. What can we really do to stop this project? A riot??!! Are we saying that the people of Hawaii cannot stop the politicians? The super ferry was stopped.
Seriously — is anyone surprised by this?
“Formby said Monday that the $700 million figure was an error on their part.” Or it may be another attempt to deliberately mislead the taxpayers by publicly quoting a lower figure while fully knowing a higher and more accurate number which will have to be “FUNDED” THROUGH FURTHER TAX INCREASES AND EXTENSIONS!!! Why do I not trust the people in the City or HART who are operating, building, planning this miserable fiasco! Incredible and un-trustworthy!!!!
““I’m very disappointed but I’m not surprised,” City Councilwoman Ann Kobayashi, the Council’s budget chairwoman and longtime critic of HART, said Monday of the latest federal estimates.” Being a disappointed critic does not translate to being an ACTING FORCE TO MAKE OR IMPLEMENT PRACTICAL ACTION FOR CHANGE does it Ms. Kobayashi?
“Kobayashi’s colleague on the Council, Transportation Chairman Joey Manahan, called it “unrealistic” to say rail officials could rein in costs by about $1 billion and still keep the project as a useful public transit alternative to the H-1 freeway.” The entire project is “UNREALISTIC”, ILL-CONCEIVED, impractical, and mis-managed! STOP THE BLEEDING NOW!
“…eroding public trust…” One cannot erode anything that no longer exists!!! Public trust (for anything the city undertakes) has left our shores for parts unknown, never to return again within the near future.
Curious, what is the % of those that originally favored the rail, now regrets their decision.
198 comments and counting. We could have had a state of the art drag strip/stock car/ Grand Prix track for a couple million. That’s what happens when you have corrupt politicians and private developers. Whoever is responsible should man up.
And you know who you are.
Thank you Mufi
BUILD IT!!!
Humph…Kirk said he’ll build rail “On Budget and On Time.” The only thing that should be on budget and on time is Kirk Caldwell and Dan Grabauskas’ one way ticket to NYC so they take a real train to Bryant Park and sip on a beer while the sun sets
The Muffster’s mantra on government spending comes to mind:
– Do we need it? No. Rail is a want not a need.
– Can we afford it? No. As we have seen $8 billion seems like the next cost estimate.
– Can we maintain it? No. Nei has a track record of failing to maintain infrastructure.
Again. Why are we doing rail in the Nei?