Scott Wilson recently wrapped up the last of three town hall meetings on the future of Kakaako, presiding over them as Honolulu chapter president of the American Institute of Architects (AIA-Honolulu), which has among its missions to “communicate the value of architects and architecture to society” and “take a stand on key issues to improve quality of life through design.”

“I think that’s an important aspect for AIA, to do this public awareness and public outreach, to help the public understand a little bit about what good urban design is,” Wilson said a week after the last meeting on Sept. 17.

That final meeting concerned Kakaako Makai, the future of which is deeply in flux. Speakers included representatives of groups that have an interest in the area, including the Hawaii Community Development Authority, which was established in 1976 to oversee its redevelopment. The three meetings, which can be viewed on the ‘Olelo website, were held at AIA-Honolulu’s Center for Architecture, where the group has a model of how Kakaako is expected to look after all the buildings planned for the area are built.

Wilson said he became interested in architecture while growing up in Ojai, Calif.

“There they had tons of oak trees, and oak trees are fabulous for building tree houses,” Wilson said. “I spent my early years just building different tree houses and going up and sitting in each one of them — and then I’d go off and plan a new one.

“For some reason,” he added, “architects are obsessed with those spaces around them, and they can somehow see things that others don’t see quite as easily. … It’s a vision thing.”

These days Wilson is applying his “vision thing” to the broader issues of urban planning on Oahu, though he’s not always happy with how things have been progressing — the city rail project being one of them.

In his own practice, Wilson specializes in residential and commercial designs. He is a graduate of The Thacher School in Ojai and has anthropology degrees from Stanford University and the University of Michigan. He earned his architecture degree and a professional certificate in urban and regional planning from the University of Hawaii.

Age 63, Wilson is married and has two adult children who live on the mainland.

Question: Thank you for agreeing to talk with me.

Answer: I know — there’s a lot of breaking news this morning. That Kyo-ya hotel decision (in which the state Supreme Court overturned a city variance that would have allowed Kyo-ya to build a 26-story tower along the Waikiki shoreline) was definitely burning up my phone lines. And then that new Innovation Center announcement in Kakaako was a bombshell.

Q: That was a surprise to you?

A: Yeah. I didn’t see that coming. Nobody had been talking about it. It’s not necessarily negative or anything, because the location was always kind of earmarked for some kind of public improvement, and it’s not in any kind of park plan. So that particular parcel and its use is fine. It’s just a huge development.

Q: And you think it’s going to work — if they build it, people will come?

A: Yeah, I live near the innovation center in Manoa (which would move into the Kakaako site), and I know that it’s been a resounding success, to where it’s a victim of too much success and really outgrown it.

Q: You just finished moderating a series of forums on the future of Kakaako, in which speakers were invited to share their “urban visions” for the area, and one of them was John Whalen, the HCDA board chairman, and he didn’t say anything about this Innovation Center?

A: No, though John has spoken at all three of these meetings.

Q: We did an interview with him recently.

A: Yeah, and it was excellent. I thought it was very appropriate, and he has, I think almost single-handedly, lifted the image of HCDA from villain to being semi-positive. (Laughter)

You know, one of the reasons we had these (forums) is because there was just so much criticism of HCDA about maybe two years ago. Various politicians were calling for it to be eliminated and the land to be taken back by the city. There was just widespread public unease with what they saw in Kakaako. … That’s why we had the town hall meetings, to really get, in a neutral environment, an evaluation of what was going on, what was the big picture, the vision for Kakaako.

Q: So how did it go in general?

A: I think we accomplished most of our goals in that those who came were satisfied … that the public interest is being considered. This isn’t a giveaway for landowners. There are no villains here. This is a worthwhile effort. …

Now, we need to make a clear distinction between mauka and makai, because it’s sort of like two different efforts. It’s all under HCDA, but Kakaako Makai is very complex and has become muddied because of the entry of OHA (the state Office of Hawaiian Affairs). Now we have two chefs working on the same recipe. We’re not sure who’s in charge. …

(Also) HCDA has (separate) sets of rules and plans for each of the areas. … The makai rules are still dated 2005 because they never did the update. They did on the mauka side; they went through a tremendous effort with a consultant from L.A. … Those guys came in and had meetings, and stuck to a schedule and they rigorously explained to everybody what the new form-based code was and how it would work and what it was intended to do, and the HCDA staff all got on board and now they’re a finely tuned machine. They are implementing these 2011 rules.

Q: What was the basic change?

A: It’s vast. It’s basically the change from a Euclidian zoning code, which is based on uses and square-footages, to a form-based zoning code which is based on building location, building size, building shape. … It’s wide open; it specifies the form but it doesn’t get into specific square footages necessarily, or even uses. It can be mixed use, for example.

Q: But the makai-side rules were never updated?

A: That did not happen. … When this big shakeup happened with OHA getting a bunch of parcels (in 2012), they just put everything on hold. … So that (difference in rules between the mauka and makai areas) was the glaring gap that became apparent in our makai meeting. …

The key thing for Kakaako Makai … is that HCDA really needs to create a strong set of guidelines and neighborhood zones for Kakaako Makai, just like they did for the mauka side. They need guidelines because OHA is a loose cannon. OHA, they are beholden for money, and they are not necessarily looking for public interest. It’s scary. HCDA would have done a great job, but then (former Gov. Neil) Abercrombie and his … advisers just ripped out these nine parcels and gave them to OHA. … From a planning perspective, that was a bloody disaster. …

You know, I’m not trying to cramp OHA unnecessarily, but they should be aware that the overall vision has a promenade, … a lei of green and waterfront promenade that should go through the entire district. This goes back to the 1920s, that there would be a public walkway all the way from Diamond Head to Aloha Tower. All the waterfront would be public and accessible and walkable. As we know, it’s there in bits and pieces. You know, Ala Moana Park and most of Waikiki. But when you get over into Kakaako it’s all chopped up. We want to get all that stitched together.

Q: Was the subject of OHA brought up at the last town hall meeting ?

A: No, we tried multiple times to get OHA to participate, and they kept saying, “Well, we’re working on our own master plan right now, so we don’t want to comment.”

Q: About Kakaako in general, people often complain, “Why another building?” But wasn’t that the whole idea, that this would be an area where development would be concentrated?

A: Yes, absolutely. In a nutshell, it’s urban infill. … We want to build up in the center of the city, where we’ve already got roads, we’ve already got sewers, we’ve got power, everything …

Q: So overall the infrastructure exists for things like 30 towers?

A: Yeah, it absolutely does. The capacity is there, and so when people raise their hands and say, “What about the sewers?” I just gotta roll my eyes, because that’s what HCDA’s been doing for so long, and they get no credit for that, and that’s really cruel. They’re finally building and everybody’s ready to crucify them, but, hey, they’ve been quietly working since 1976. And finally they’re ready to start coming up out of the ground, so to speak, and everyone’s going, “Whoa, whoa, what’s this? Oh my God, this is going to be Singapore, this is going to be Hong Kong.” And I’m just saying, “Guys, relax. They’ve got a very good set of rules, this is the whole idea of this.” …

We keep saying over and over, this is a live, work and play environment. You won’t need your car. Lay people are locked into their old suburban notions of Honolulu. … Even with the rail, you hear people say, “Well, build the rail as long as you don’t make the roads any smaller.” And I’m going, well, the point of building the rail is so we have fewer cars.

Q: Speaking of rail, are you still chairman of the AIA transit task force?

A: That has pretty much gone dormant, but, yes, I was its chair, and we did an extensive report on what we felt was the best kind of rail system.

Q: I recall that you had some reservations about the project.

A: Yeah. We liked the rail but we did not like that heavy elevated rail. After we extensively reviewed all the other rail projects going on in the states, we were unanimous, really, in endorsing a light rail that could go up or down.

Q: So what do you think about how the project has been progressing so far?

A: Well, (sighs) it’s just extremely disappointing that despite all of the problems coming true as we had foreseen, the politicians and our leaders are just absolutely stuck on this project. … You hear calls all the time now to stop the project, stop it at Middle Street, stop it at Iwilei, and it’s like, cut, cut, you know, constantly, and when you see what’s been built, you have to just shake your head and go, “This is going to be a disaster,” and the expenses are just going to only climb as we start to get into the city.

This project was done in the most callous, self-serving way possible. It couldn’t have been scripted in a more evil, evil way, to start out where there’s no objections, get your foot in the door and then shrug and say, “Gosh, we don’t want to stop now. We’ve already spent this money.”

Q: What would be a good alternative at this point?

A: Well, the one that we still advocate is to change to light-rail technology, because then you could bring it down to the street. Instead we have this third-rail technology that is 120 years old (that has to be) completely underground or completely overhead.

Q: What do you mean third-rail technology?

A: The third rail is next to the other two, and it’s the power rail. It has 50,000 volts in it. … You have a little paddle that sticks out from the train that picks up the power. But that has to be completely separated from people and cars because the electrocution is instant. You fry. It’s what they built for the New York subway 120 years ago and they are still using that same … ancient technology today in Honolulu.

Congratulations, you have stepped backwards 120 years.

Q: What about TOD (transit-oriented planning)? Do you think that will pan out?

A: TOD is totally separate. I totally advocate TOD because it makes sense. It’s good city planning. You can build denser where you have a lot of transportation options. It’s New York City. I mean, New York City uses the least amount energy per capita of any American city. Why? Because, A, your heating and your air conditioning of individual apartments in big high-rises is incredibly efficient, and, B, you’re not using cars as much; you’re using public transportation, you’re walking; all of your amenities are close by. That’s efficient. That’s efficient city planning.

Q: Are most of your AIA chapter’s 900 members working these days? It’s a pretty good market, isn’t it?

A: Yeah, but it’s not as good as you would think. Overall the economy is strong, there’s a huge boom of construction and you hear that’s one reason why the rail is expensive, because everyone’s so busy, and that’s legit.

There’s military work, there’s condo work, obviously in Kakaako. There’s the rail. … There’s ongoing home construction, which never ends, because we’ve got such a housing shortage.

So, yeah, you would think, architects would be, like, busy as beavers, but unfortunately there are some new economic trends within the country and within the state.

One is offshore architects. When you have these big corporations like Howard Hughes, they bring their own architects. The rail, too. With rail we thought, whoa, we’ll all be busy. Because that’s what (former) Mayor (Mufi) Hannemann told us. You know, “Oh yeah, each one of you gets to do a station.” Well, that was a hollow promise. … So that didn’t materialize.

So I would say right now that most everybody is busy, but it could be a lot busier.