Removing asbestos and lead paint from the second-floor offices of the Honolulu City Council could cost taxpayers $50 million or more — and that’s without any additional cosmetic work, the city buildings chief told the Council Budget Committee last week.
Facility Maintenance Director Ross Sasamura said the $50 million estimate factors in only the cost of the asbestos removal. Other improvements that the Council might want to make would cost extra.
"The funding requirement … will be significant, and it’s going to be something that I think will have to be addressed," he said.
Commonly used in old-style tile flooring and insulation, asbestos should be considered a potential health hazard only when it crumbles, scientists contend. Workers typically wear protective gear when working with the carcinogen.
But veteran Council members said Sasamura’s comments Thursday reinforced for them what they have been saying for years: that they suspect the iconic but antiquated Honolulu Hale could be the source of illnesses in people who work and visit there.
Budget Committee members receiving informational budget briefings from various city agencies over the past week brought up the second-floor renovation issue three times.
Council Budget Chairwoman Ann Kobayashi said that Council offices are shut down at least once a month to have the air conditioning cleaned.
"We have to cover everything in plastic, and we can’t come in," she said. "And then all of your workers have masks. We don’t have any. We just worry about that because I’ve never seen a place where every month they have to close down."
Freshman Councilman Trevor Ozawa said his allergies started kicking up soon after he first moved into his office next to Kobayashi’s. He asked whether the carpet could be replaced.
"They said I couldn’t," he recalled, "because the carpet’s been there over 30-something years and they’re not able to change out the carpet because what’s under there is carcinogenic."
Ozawa said he’s also noticed dust where the walls are chipped.
"I’m not sure what that is. And then from the air conditioning, I’m seeing, like, brown tar coming down. In this day and age, when there’s a problem we should solve it, not just have to live with it."
Councilwoman Carol Fukunaga said she wants to see a schedule for removing any potentially hazardous materials to safeguard against exposure to employees and visitors.
"I think we all appreciate that the second floor really has never been renovated," she said.
The need to relocate the offices for the Council’s nine members, their staffs and the employees who run the Office of the City Clerk, as well as the Legislative Auditor’s Office, accounts for a large chunk of the $50 million estimate, Sasamura said.
Last year the cost of what the Council initially thought would be a simple, no-frills renovation of its third-floor chambers tripled after workers discovered asbestos and lead paint. The project finished in October, more than six months late and at a final cost of $428,000.
Displaced from its regular monthly meeting spot, the Council held meetings at the Civic Center Auditorium next door, Windward Community College, Kapolei Hale and the University of Hawaii at West Oahu.
Kobayashi said the Council set aside $14 million for Council office renovation about six or seven years ago.
"We had the blueprints ready for the renovation for this floor … but the money went elsewhere," she said. "The money is gone but the asbestos is still there."
After Monday’s meeting both Kobayashi and Council Chairman Ernie Martin said some money should probably be set aside in the coming year for a serious evaluation.
Martin last year introduced a resolution calling on the Caldwell administration to look at the feasibility of moving the seat of government to a new building next to Kapolei Hale in West Oahu. Given the high costs mentioned for asbestos removal, that plan might make sense, Martin said Monday.
He emphasized he first wants to see a breakdown of the $50 million estimate from Sasamura, the buildings chief.
Sasamura said the renovation needs to be done. He described Honolulu Hale as "something that we should all be proud of … a landmark, something that we have to take pride in and something where we kind of have to make that effort."
Clifford Lau, facilities chief in the city Department of Design and Construction, assured committee members that after testing air samples, "we got clear results, and it is safe for you folks to be in the building." When asbestos first became identified as a carcinogen and was subsequently banned, Lau said, city buildings were surveyed for friable, or loose, asbestos material that was sprayed onto ceilings.
"Actions were taken to encapsulate," Lau said. "As we go forth and renovate areas, we have been doing abatement and removed asbestos-containing materials as feasible (before) renovation work proceeds."
The city has conducted several surveys on the general air quality of the building over the years, Lau said.
"In most cases we have found fairly good conditions … that were acceptable and were safe," he said. "Where we have found … any disturbance of the ceiling … we take a lot of precautions before any kind of work is done in portions of the building if the ceiling is being taken down."
City Design and Construction Director Robert Kroning said he agreed with Council members that "this building needs some work."
Kroning said those working in the building are asked to leave when ceiling work is being done as a precaution that is "more about the dust than anything else," adding, "If it were hazardous, we would definitely be reacting to that."
Listed on both the Hawaii and national Registers of Historic Places, Honolulu Hale opened in 1929.
