Take rail all way to Ala Moana, voters urge
DENNIS ODA / JULY 6
Construction prices have driven up the project’s official cost by 60 percent. Above, construction of the mass-transit rail line continues along Kamehameha Highway near Aloha Stadium.
A solid majority of Oahu voters maintain the island’s rail transit project still should be built to Ala Moana Center as planned, the latest Hawaii Poll found.
However, when asked who would best handle rail-related issues, more island voters said they prefer the mayoral candidate who opposes using any more local tax dollars to help the severely cash-strapped project reach that destination.
Some 62 percent of voters insist rail should go to Ala Moana Center, while 25 percent felt construction should stop immediately and another 10 percent contend the system should stop at Middle Street, the poll found.
Only 2 percent of voters polled said they didn’t know what should be done about rail given its new giant financial troubles or refused to answer.
At the same time, 43 percent of voters polled said mayoral candidate and former Honolulu City Councilman Charles Djou would do the best job addressing rail issues.
Djou has said that he would hold the transit project to its existing local tax revenues, which combined with federal tax dollars are expected to generate about $6.8 billion to work with. Rail officials now say it will be virtually impossible to build the full project as planned on that budget. Djou has said he’s “open to any reasonable alternative” to building the full elevated 20-mile system to Ala Moana Center, such as incorporating bus rapid transit or street-level light rail into the design.
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Last week Djou said that he would be open to pursuing more federal tax dollars to help build the system.
Meanwhile, 31 percent of Oahu voters in the poll said Mayor Kirk Caldwell is the best candidate to address rail-related issues. Some 15 percent of voters said Caldwell’s predecessor, Peter Carlisle, is best suited.
Escalating construction prices have helped drive up the project’s official cost estimate by about 60 percent since Caldwell took office in January 2013. Nonetheless, the mayor says he’s determined to find the means to build the full elevated system to Ala Moana Center even though rail officials say the project’s budget now gets it as far as Middle Street.
Caldwell has asked federal partners in the rail project to postpone until next summer the city’s Aug. 7 deadline to come up with a “recovery” plan. That would buy local rail leaders time to pursue more federal dollars after the 2016 national election, as well as more state dollars during the 2017 legislative session and funding partnerships with private developers along the planned line.
Carlisle also said he’s open to using more local tax dollars to fund the full 20-mile elevated line.
“I think that it seems kind of silly to stop midway through the island. This would provide quick, affordable transportation to one of the biggest shopping areas we have,” 67-year-old Kailua resident Kathy Bowers, who took part in the poll, said in a follow-up interview Friday.
Bowers said Djou “overall would do the best job” on rail. “He will be pragmatic about it,” she said.
Caldwell often expresses strong vocal support for the project, and “sometimes that’s good,” Bowers said. “But with politicians you’ve got to be able to look at all different sides.”
Lori Murakami, a 52-year-old Windward resident, said she too wants to see the full line built so that Oahu has a system comparable to other U.S. cities. However, she said, Caldwell would handle the project better as mayor.
“He’s for the rail. He wants to finish it. And there’s been lots of other people trying to stop the rail,” Murakami said Friday.
An overwhelming majority of Oahu voters — 81 percent — remain adamant that their property taxes should not be raised in order to keep building the rail line past Middle Street, the poll found.
The Hawaii Poll, conducted June 30 to July 9 on cellphones and landlines, included 401 registered voters on Oahu. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 4.9 points.
20160718 Hawaii Poll Tables July 2016 – Rail by Honolulu Star-Advertiser on Scribd
178 responses to “Take rail all way to Ala Moana, voters urge”
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Take the boring guy, Carlisle. We want boring and uncomfortable, that’s Carlisle. Djou should be a columnist, very good at pointing out problems, but not able to do anything beyond that (obviously, just an opinion). At this point, either stop it in it’s tracks, take it down or build housing on it…or build to Ala Moana. We need the tax in perpetuity to pay for maintenance anyway, and we can’t get rid of the bus system, even though we could have expanded the bus system for the price we’re paying for rail and all that, made it more convenient, frequent, provided more jobs and all that…and the construction industry would have been taken care of with all the development going on now anyways. Anyway, I digress, let’s go boring. And does anyone else think “On time, on budget” everytime they see Caldwell’s add at the top of the Advertiser?
You knew rail was a scam when they started building it from the as s end of the project, beginning construction out in the middle of nowhere. Of course, our incompetent, corrupt, inept “leaders” allowed it to happen. Stop the project now, stop wasting our money, stop the bleeding, it is now tragically apparent how screwed we are, so pull the plug now, tell the construction workers to go home.
ROTFL at this utterly shibai “Survey” dreamed up by the weak of mind pro railers as they desperately try to convince everyone rail is “On time, on budget.” Really?
With this worthless survey question, “It should go all the way to Ala Moana” the fact rail is years behind schedule, billions over budget, is removed from the equation.
A true, transparent survey question would have asked, “Already years behind schedule and billions over budget, would you be ok with rail going to Ala Moana if it required a yearly 10% or more increase in your property taxes to fund rail’s monthly O&M costs, pay for union workers salary/medical/pension benefits, other rail related expenses?”
Want to bet with a true question rail’s approval would be in the gutter. Gotta laugh at how backwards and unprofessional Nei surveys are done. Hide the truth, leave out key information, slant the question to get the answer you want.
Just another day in the little 8th world of Hawaii Nei.
Do voters really want to give the responsibility of building rail to the guy from the party of NO? Charles Djou is not only from The Tea Party of NO but he has NO idea how to do anything but complain.
This is for OD — been a Dem for over 40 years, and I’m sick of the old same-o, same-o spend spend spend. Only Dem I’ll vote for this year is Clinton, because Drumpf Trump is such a racist, bigoted, sabi ***hole.
OD – BTW, Carlisle is the one who advocates increasing property taxes to finish the toy choo-choo. And this despite the fact that he, too, is a card-carrying Elephant.
People who really care about being taxed shouldn’t consider the RINO Carlisle at all.
Seems like a bogus poll. I don’t know of anyone I know being asked this question. But, we know SA is pro-rail. Full speed ahead, damn the cost.
Yes, the questions are biased , almost as bad as the S’a’s poll which I can never answer since the questions are severely loaded combining a variety of concepts in one answer.
This is a lie to the voters……………. just like the original vote for rail was a fraud. Stop rail when every penny originally allotted for rail and stop it right on the spot/PERIOD.
What, do not ask us to throw all of our Federal and State tax money, planning and effort already invested in the rail project by ending it at Middle Street. Rail metro needs to go the full planned length to maximum ridership, and reach all the important stations in Honolulu, the civic center, Kapolei, and Ala Moana. By going the full length, all 21 rail metro stations will have affordable housing and rentals, planned and built around or near the rail metro stations and along the rail metro line. We need to complete the rail metro project quickly, so the affordable housing and rentals may be built to alleviate our housing and rental crisis, and the homeless crisis. Issue state bondsi with the low current interest rates to pay for the completion of the rail metro guide way. Also extend the 0.005% General Excise Tax for the completion of the rail metro project. Have the Federal Transportation Administration contribute to the completion of the rail metro project. The property owners around the rail stations will see their property values really go up. Their property tax will also go up. The revenue from their property tax needs to be allocated to completion of the rail metro project and maintenance and operational expenses
A ten billion dollar one trick pony
Djou is a Tepublican.
And the rail doesn’t go to Nanakuli.
What is a 10%er.
A babooze that lives in Nanakuli?
I vote rail even if it doesn’t go to Nanakuli. That makes me unbias. Shoo keolu pond.
10%er is some out of work old guy sitting with flip flops on in his apartment rental wearing an out of style Aloha shirt and pretending to be local while attempting to be witty using a half Hawaiian blog name. Ok, I apologize ‘kuli’ but I did keep it clean.
That is not a solution. They should go to Ala Moana, but they need to cut out those stupid and expensive decorations on the columns and should leave out some of the stations (do them later). Savings from less stations will enable the rail to reach Ala Moana.
Good reccommendation
What, easy for you to say stop rail, and send the construction workers home. You would be firing all the people who have anything to do with rail. All the people who are planning, designing,reviewing the project, all the contractors, subcontractors, the engineers, the construction workers, the electricians, carpenters, plumbers, surveyors, geoechnicians, the State, City, and Federal personnel who are doing work on the metro project, all the material and equipment suppliers and vendors. Our unemployment rate would go up again, all those people laid off and without incomes, will start defaulting on their mortgages, will not be able to pay their rents and pushed out into streets, and add even more to our homeless problem, or have to move away from Hawaii. Without those incomes, there will be less business and economic activity in the State, and our economy will go into a downward economic spiral and into stagnation and recession. Federal, State, and City tax revenues will be lower, government, social and public services will be cut back, accelerating the return to a depressed economy.
Since 62 percent of the voters want to continue rail, they can pay for it and maintain. Leave the rest of us alone. You knuckleheads want it, you pay for it. Rail is the most as a nine project ever. We can all thank our knuckle head politicassns for send the city into bankruptcy.
Don’t work that way moi.
Right the majority rules…
Public utilities and services don’t work by voluntary contributions from just the people using them. Everyone chips in–that’s how we can have them be public. To do the best public service, the rail should go to UH Manoa. If it also needs to go to Ala Moana, fine. Build it, sell bonds or whatever it takes, and then it can start collecting money.
You’re right, car wash, chili sale, etc. ( County sponsored of course).
Lana888, you have no idea how much money 10 billion dollars is if you think “start collecting money” is going to make things better. I guess math is not strong in Hawaii.
Its the same people who “think” that Rail will reduce traffic because the other guy, not them, will use it. Well guess what, 90% of the “other guys” think exactly like you and won’t use rail and keep using their cars. What a joke!
Rail is more than riding rail. It’s also providing a transit option for those who areally unable to drive, for those who do not own or cannot afford car repairs, insurance, and maintenance, for students, for the handicap who do not drive, for seniors rs who are incabable of driving. It is about transiting above all the traffic congestion, not stopping at every intersection, not having to own an expensive parking space or garage, or having to search for the scarce public parking in Honolulu and Waikiki, or having to pay astronomical prices to park in parking garages. It’s also about building afford able housing and rentals around or near the rail metro stations, and reducing the escalating housing and rental prices, which is fourcing people away from Hawaii, and into homelessness. It is also about commercial, business, retail, residential and rental development around the 21 rail metro stations, that will invigorate the communities and neighborhoods around the rail metro station, and create more economic activity and jobs, and continue our booming economy
moiman, with that attitude, my tax money should not have been used to build H-3, and the new sewer tunnel system between Kaneohe and Kailua, since I rarely use H-3, and never use that sewer system. Selfish, me only attitude
Caldwell is dishonest and getting awfully boring. Doesn’t he have more than one insincere TV ad?
justmyview321, you are way more nasty boring, and phony
I said long ago when they came up with a 6mil budget. Always said, “‘ It would take 8-10mil to complete it.”
What, 8-10mil? Must be a typographical error. It’s more like 8-10billion and that’s the reason this project is in deep trouble…not enough money to finish as planned.
The rail wasn’t planned to go to Ala Moana. It was supposed to go to UH Manoa. We are stopping at Middle Street because the money has run out.
Yup, the original studies showed that rail would be most effective getting UH Manoa bound traffic out of the loop. Middle Street in that case fits that route.
But of course, the developers, contractors, and unions got into the picture, with Stanford Carr and the Ala Moana Center luxury condos at one end and that upcoming residential development at the West End. Wasn’t the West End where Jack the Ripper hung out?
Nope, it was the East End. That’s the end with Stanford Carr. Always knew there was a family resemblance between the Ripper and Carr.
Plans have changed. You build it to where your projected budget says it will go, Feds have the last say here and, before that, we’ll have an election for Djou to try to kill rail.
Last time Djou spoke on rail, he said the same thing Ernie is saying. He wants a low cap on the projected expenses of rail.
It’ll cost whatever it’s projected to cost. Unless something changes to change the actual cost. Djou and Ernie are funny.
UH Manoa is only a mile and a half from the Ala Moana Rail Metro station. Just a short shuttle or bus ride. Your argument does not hold up to the facts
kahuku01, what is abysmal, and our deep trouble, is the pervasive negative mentality of the people posting here in
Save money. Don’t build the stations, don’t install the electrical components of the rail, don’t build the tracks, and put Express buses on the guideway. That will accomplish everything rail will at a fraction of the price and make use of what is already constructed. In addition, the bus can continue on to Ala Moana, UH, or any destination without passengers having to change trains.
BS poll, in this case, Stop the Rusting Hated Screeching Rail at the Stadium and use the existing guide way as an elevated reversable. Its the only smart move at this point
Ending rail at Middle St or Ala Moana Center makes no difference to the commuter: most commuters still have to catch another bus to their final destinations.
Meanwhile, the incompetent rail building must stop now because the project has insufficient funds.
“HART hasn’t yet issued the two big contracts to complete rail’s final 10 miles”.
The first 10 miles ends at Aloha Stadium. The practical and best option is to convert the rail guide way to a 2-lane HOV(2) Reversible freeway from Kapolei to Aloha Stadium for less than $4 Billion already collected via GET. The two-lane reversible can be used for single passenger vehicles during non-peak hours. Tampa has built a Reversible Express Lane for $42 million per mile in year 2006, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkM-MC3N-oY. The Tampa elevated structure is built similar to the Oahu Rail guide way.
The year 2030 downtown-bound commuter demand will be 15,000 commuters per hour above the existing highway capacity, according to the city’s Alternative Traffic Analysis. The reversible can carry up to 17,000 commuters per hour (200 express buses and 3800 vehicles per hour) versus 3,000 RAIL commuters per hour. The reversible freeway will eliminate traffic gridlock at the H-1/H-2 merge.
New buses are 80% Federally funded and would cost the city about $200,000 per bus or $40 million for 200 new buses. HART plans to purchase 80 rail cars at $2.0 million (Oahu taxpayer funded) each for $160 million.
The guide way can carry most vehicles except heavy construction vehicles such as concrete batch trucks and 18 wheeler trucks. Freeway on/off ramps can be constructed at about 5 mile intervals (Kapolei, Farrington/Ft. Weaver, H-1/H-2, Aloha Stadium).
This Reversible HOV(2) freeway option deletes rail costs such as rail stations, rail cars, utilities relocation, land/building acquisitions, rail security, new rail power plant, 10 miles of rail guideway, rail O&M (100 million per year), etc, which will reduce the total project cost to less than $4 Billion.
Good idea but cars stalling or an accident taking place will bring the traffic to a halt.
Extending the via duct to Atkinson Blvd. will create two main highway arteries to get through the metropolis of Honolulu and the beginning of the Waikiki area.
This will solve the morning rush hour traffic but not the afternoon rush traffic which backs up on the via duct and the redhill highways.
Solution for the afternoon traffic is to have a bridge going over Pearl Harbor to the Ewa plains connected to the via duct somewhere before the stadium. This roadway need not go through the military base of Pearl Harbor.
The total price of doing this maybe less or maybe more. This plan would have helped to lessen traffic both ways. Similarly like the 3 tunnels and its roadways from Windward to the Leeward area.
Future maintenance cost to be lot less than having to maintain a rail.
The rail guideway is not designed to handle the dead weight load of bumper to bumper traffic. The tracks are already being laid for the beautiful sleek trains that will whisk riders through the congested corridor. We need to finish the job right and get rail all the way to Ala Moana as planned.
Ukulele Blue-how long before the ” beautiful sleek trains” look like the crappy WikiWiki at the airport?
A poll has no real meaning as it can be skewed to reflect whatever the takers objectives are. Turning the rail into a reversible bus road makes the most sense. No unending train maintenance and electrical power generation issues to deal with (the train would require a new power plant being built, a cost that has never been planned upon or mentioned).
Exactly. You can tell Grabby Boy dreamed up this utterly shibai survey. So laughable.
Another conspiracy theory, the poll was contrived Ganbruskas. What a bizarre imagination the anti- rail metro folk have
Maybe you should actually read the question first. To me it was a perfectly neutral quastion.
Neutral question? When you fail to give all the information? Here are some “Neutral Questions” for you:
– Elected bureaucrats should be honest, intelligent, able to do their jobs to standard. If not, do not run for office.
– All city and state budgets should be balanced every year.
– Any dishonest HPD or other LEO should immediately fess up and resign.
– Hawaii’s educational unions and bureaucrsts (BOE/DOE/HSTA) should put the needs of students before theirs.
If there is an accident or emergency on the “guideway”, how do emergency crews and police get to it? All the Express buses will all come to a stop and block the entire route with no way for anyone to get off.
They will have to build several on and off ramps for the buses and those things are not free.
Sailfish1, if there is an accident or emergency of the rail line, how will emergency crews and police get to it? How will anyone get off?
If they build the rail, instead of an “express bus guideway”, they will have rail stations where people can get to and go down to ground level. Emergency crews and police can also go up at the closest rail stations.
A train also has far less chance of an accident as compared to buses.
Djou is a true Tea Republican opportunist, who has no viable plans to complete the rail metro project, just more obstructionist, reationary, and regressive behavior in the Republican Congress and the Senate. He is in lock step with the Tea Party and Republican agenda
What, are you going senile?
A majority of who? SA seems to still want to push this horrible project. Most I know want the rail stopped.
So true. A professional survey, not one dreamed up by Grabby Boy, would have posted all the metrics used to get the answers. As in what age group was surveyed, their average income, where they live, time of day the survey was done, etc.
A true, professional survey would not slant the question to get the answer you want. Would give all the facts.
Clearly professional rookies playing with their crayons dreamed up this shibai survey. Laughable.
Don’t you hate it when a poll prepared by a company like Ward Research comes out with results that don’t match your perspectives? Come on now 62%! Yeah must be those slanted questions all right.
Plus in the meddle of Phone calling Polls abatch most people like e Screen their calls and do not do polls. a hundred polling calls a month. Give it a rest. Union workers of corse vote YES that is for their Pocket book.
Ward Research is one of the standard pollsters that spend spend types like to go to. Every pollster knows how to manipulate wording to get the result desired by those who commissioned the poll. in this case, probably the biased SA editorial staff and owners, who depend on the big spenders’ advertising dollars. Oh, include Hawaii News Now, too. You’ve heard their GM Bianchiardi speaking on the toy choo-choo, too, right?
Oh yes this is about UNION WORKERS! Come on you hacks, give it up. The problem you have is not the polling, its the results. Had the results been reversed you guys would have been all happy happy and crowing about how the people want rail stopped in its tracks. Be honest with yourself, a solid plurality want the rail continued to Ala Moana. Deal with it.
While watching Hawaii News Now this morning there were three choices put forward by the panel. Ala Moana, Middle Street or Stop rail, but when they showed the results only Ala Moana and Middle St. were posted. I shouted at the TV, where’s the numbers “to stop rail”? Yet, they continued the discussion and they kept bringing up the three choices.What a scam.
This is the result when we have lawyers make business decisions. We need more business people running this gov’t, not more lawyers. If this was somewhere on the mainland or Europe, instead of rail, a tunnel for cars would be built under the mouth of Pearl Harbor which would take people from the leeward side straight to H1 near the airport. If not the tunnel, H1 should have been double-decked with each deck being one-way for cars. As for rail, why is ending at Ala Moana Center, a private entity, Since it skirts several colleges, it should be going to UH, Manoa instead of a shopping center. Did General Growth, the owners of Ala Moana have anything to do with this absurd decision.
I still remember the CEO administration of George W Bush and Dick Cheney. You can’t run government like a business.
OD, are you taking meds to control your hatred of conservatives? If you are, they’re not working.
Right OD. And when business men run into trouble, where do they go? Yup straight to the lawyers.
And when politicians run into trouble, they lie and steal from tax payers.
Sandi2000, be more accurate. The rail metro stations stop at THE UH WEST OAHU in Kapolei, stops at Leeward Community College at the Pearl Highlands station, at Honolulu Community College at the Dillingham Kapalama station, at Hawaii Pacific University at the Bishop St. Honolulu station, and the Ala Moana station is only a mile and a quarter from UH Manoa. Get the facts before making false statements
“Rail officials now say it will be virtually impossible to build the full project as planned on that budget.”
Reading those responses, it appears that the majority are really saying “deliver the product that you promised you would the price you promised.”
It was only a few months ago that Mayor Caldwell lobbied for an extension of the “temporary” rail tax that he and HART swore would be enough to finish the project.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/breaking-news/mayor-signs-5-year-extention-of-tax-surcharge-for-rail-project/
Then last month the FTA exposed that latest lie.
So your headline “Take rail all way to Ala Moana, voters urge” seems a little misleading.
How about, “Voters urge next Mayor to deliver rail at the price it was promised.”
Voters want rail to go to Ala Moana but do not want property taxes raised. Hence, the question should have been “Do you want rail to go to Ala Moana by raising your property tax?”
Or do you want the GET extended? Property prices going up, always have in Honolulu. So the property tax goes up even if Rail was not built. It’s part of inflation. A loaf of bread is not 10 cents anymore.
The GET will not get anymore extensions. Property tax will increase but not to pay for rail. I understand it. Do you? So if no GET extension and without property tax for rail, where will the funds come from to go to the shopping center? Tell me!
BTW ever wondered who paid for this survey.
“Hawaii Poll” business registration is expired at DCCA – what is the name of the company that did this poll?
Or did the Star Advertiser call numbers out of the telephone book and ask them what they thought?
Sorry SA, you can’t claim it’s a poll just to get a story together. Please tell us you didn’t do that.
SA Cub Reporters just made the whole survey up to fill space. Clearly unprofessional, slanted to try and save rail. Sooooo laughable.
not enough news happening so any kind stuff makes da top news like the fisherman being fined 2 bills for hooking too small papio
come on longs safeway don quiote & target………..put more stuff on sale so at least the inserts can fill the void in news
Localguy, suppose your posts are not slanted toward rail opponents
Poll was done by Ward Research.
I really think the results of this poll is not reported wrong. How can anyone who wants the rail to go to ala moana not realize the there is not enough money to go that far? Eventually the taxpayers will pay for it. All the pro-rail politicians should come up with he truth(like they want the HArT people to come up with the truth). I predict the rail will cost about 10 billion if it goes through as planned
All you need to do is change the wording of the poll and the results will be different. Should we finish the rail at any cost? Including raising property taxes and making the GET increase permanent?
And then do these respondents know that property taxes are going up after rail is running to pay the 12-20 million dollar operation and maintenance fees?
Knowing how voters are on Oahu, they probably think the money will magically appear with no consequences to them.
Wondermn1, you keep repeating the same nonsense, you must be losing it. Muddle thinking is not a good sign
Is this the Hawaii Poll that is normally wrong?
And they aren’t voters, they are poll takers. Don’t try to frame this like it’s another non-existent ballot vote.
Self serving poll that gives you whatever answer you want.
So, 81% don’t want to use property taxes to build ?It,” but what about operating and maintaining it? The paper’s pools are very poorly worded and ask half the question.
The article includes this information re the survey: “The Hawaii Poll, conducted June 30 to July 9 on cellphones and landlines, included 401 registered voters on Oahu. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 4.9 points.” Like it or not, it’s a valid survey. I didn’t participate in this poll, but I’m for the Ala Moana Center termination. The Center is a popular destination as well as a hub for other destinations — via bus or future rail — such as UH Manoa, Waikiki, and East Oahu. Extending it past Middle Street takes in Kapalama, downtown, the capitol, city hall, Kakaako. The downtown pass-through is critical for business and government affairs. It can also serve as a hub for bus (or rail?) extensions to Windward Oahu. The fact is, rail transit is inevitable. Take a look at similar locations around the world. West Oahu is the fastest and largest growing area on Oahu. The morning and pau hana traffic is unimaginably heavy — and it’s only going to get worse. If we’re concerned about cost today, then we should consider what the cost will be tomorrow. It’s not going to be cheaper. Once the rail service to Ala Moana is in and functioning, we can begin to plan for rail extensions to Waikiki and UH-Manoa. Yes, it’s going to cost. But it makes sense.
The survey results aren’t at all surprising. Most folks support rail, and almost everyone recognizes that stopping it at Middle Street makes no sense. At the same time a majority supports the candidate who has no plan to cover the cost other than promise not to further increase taxes. As others have pointed out, a better-designed survey would have told us more than what we already know, which is that people like to have their cake and eat it too. As for the commenters who are still arguing to stop the project and/or tear down what’s already been built, you can continue saying “I told you so” over and over again if it makes you feel good but that won’t change the reality that rail is being built and what we need now is to find a way to finish it as planned without bankrupting the City. In my view that means thinking out of the box with respect to controlling construction costs. Given the fact that the local construction unions are so overwhelmed with work that they’re bidding outrageous prices to avoid landing marginally profitable projects — witness the public school air conditioning debacle — maybe it’s time to consider special legislation that would allow the remainder of the rail project to be built by a foreign company with less expensive, temporarily imported labor. Imagine a Korean or Chinese company bringing in a couple of thousand workers, housing them on a rented cruise ship in Honolulu harbor, and going full bore to build out the final 10 miles of the line. The rail work could get done much faster and cost taxpayers billions less, while local workers would be freed up to focus on higher-margin Kakaako build-out and other TOD projects that rail’s completion and use will fuel for many years to come. It could be a win-win-win solution if our government and union leaders leaders open their eyes.
HawaiiMongoose sees the elephant in the room that everyone else is pretending not to see. The high costs are a direct result of high union wages. If we could bypass the unions and contract foreign construction companies, the costs would probably be much lower. BUT that would be political suicide in this state and probably every other state. Union labor costs have driven many large businesses overseas. In time, we may see construction go the same route. Unions have played a huge role in improving the quality of life for American workers. In Hawaii, their role has been huge. So most of us are hesitant to challenge them. However, a confrontation, sooner or later, may be inevitable. HawaiiMongoose’s idea of a compromise between foreign and local unions is an option worth exploring.
Amazing how this is going to plan as the thought always involved build it to the point of “no return” and condition the “sheeple” with the additional rail tax so that they’re used to it.
Its pretty simple, if you contracted with a builder to build a house for $300,000 and then over time the builder escalates the price over 3 times and tells you he’ll build LESS THAN WHAT YOU AGREED ON………would you just shrug your shoulders and accept it? Apparently the sheeple according to this poll, has.
With as much new construction in the works and coming out of the ground it seems like a TIF district would be an appropriate way to finance part of the project. Also, how many of us that got bids on a construction project in 2013 would expect the contractor to honor that bid in 2016? Of course the prices are higher.
The article reads (in part): “Djou has said that he would hold the transit project to its existing local tax revenues, which combined with federal tax dollars are expected to generate about $6.8 billion to work with. Rail officials now say it will be virtually impossible to build the full project as planned on that budget. Djou has said he’s “open to any reasonable alternative” to building the full elevated 20-mile system to Ala Moana Center, such as incorporating bus rapid transit or street-level light rail into the design.” As usual, Djou has no plan and offers no specifics. It’s easy to criticize from the peanut gallery, making no promises he can’t be held to. What a shibai artist.
Well the two C’s solution to this mess is the raise taxes. What are THEIR alternative to raising taxes?
That sounds like a plan to me. The real shibai artists are the naked emperor and waffle cladwell and carlisle the property tax fiend … and you.
Want it finished without raising property taxes? Where else are they going to find the money to complete this? Something has to give and it’s always going to be the taxpayers.
I do not believe the construction costs are to blame for the high cost. Its BAD planning, misinformation and LIES. thank you
If the 62% voters wants rail to Ala Moana, show me the MONEY!!
So “everyone” wants rail to go all the way to ala moana but no one wants to pay for it?
Who did they survey? All the homeless???
The silent majority always wanted rail. We need to finish rail as planned for our better future for our children and grandchildren.
How will rail benefit our children and grandchildren when it won’t relieve traffic but saddle future generations with significant tax increases?
Notice NO response from Ukulele Blue on your question.
Could an answer be – It will give your children a transportation alternative to the automobile, allowing them to commute between the Primary Urban Center and Secondary Urban Center without the need for a car? Can a possible answer also be that the growth that is directed around the rail line through special Transit Oriented Development district provide housing alternatives that are closer to public transportation while relieving the pressure to urbanize other parts of Oahu to accommodate future population growth?
HawaiiCheeseBall says:
“It will give your children a transportation alternative to the automobile, allowing them to commute between the Primary Urban Center and Secondary Urban Center without the need for a car?”
You mean like our formerly award winning bus system?
uku, take a break. You do not have to post. We know your propaganda by heart.
Let’s all stop cwo.
First order of business should be to fire Grabauskas.
Of the rail, wisdom should prevail at this point in time. This taxpayer has never been an advocate of the rail since its conception, in it’s infancy and the present situation nor of the present Mayor overseeing this abomination! At this point in time, the rail should continue and its goals should be to Ala Moana Center. The cost is already beyond the estimated one and the Mayor performances in jeopardy, but this project, despite many opposition, need to continue. Mayor Cardwell with all his faults is also the most experience, have the people and knowledgeable to finish this albatross. The other two Mayoral candidates will need time to get their ideas and personnels together . We cannot afford anymore delay.
Does anyone else notice that only the people that are against the rail comes to these forums and complains complains complains.
Seems like most people do want the rail to be finished. I would like to see it on the ballot again and let the people decide. The people voted once for it so let’s just see what they think of it now.
All you need to do is change the wording of the poll and the results will be different. Should we finish the rail at any cost? Including raising property taxes and making the GET increase permanent?
And then do these respondent know that property taxes are going up after rail is running to pay the 12-20 million dollar operation and maintenance fees?
Finish building rail to Ala Moaana, and operating rail, at any cost, including a permanent GET for rail and an increase in property taxes.
There has NEVER been a yes or no vote on rail. Stop spreading fertilizer.
You know the last mayoral election was about pro vs. anti-rail — so stop your ignorant postings everyday. You must be a product of the Hawaii public schools!
No dipstick the last mayoral election was about BS gossip about one candidate instigated by union crooks who wanted the rail project to continue. You tell me when you had an opportunity to vote yes or no on rail. Even if you had the question on the ballot, you would have had to have been a resident to vote. Where you a resident back then?
And it was acknowledged that the pro rail campaign was full of lies.
And PRP hired people to SMEAR the Anti-Rail Mayoral Candidate !
We are aware of what forces caused the previous election to be won by the PRP puppet. PRP also admitted to all the false accusations they put out there. Are you in denial?
No one called me. I say tear it down!
Haven’t you noticed that the naked emperor cladwell has flipped again on rail? He’s becoming a regular flap-jack. But by now he must be burnt on both sides.
Throw the Inouye-wannabe out before he does a Moofi on us.
I would like to see multiple rail lines interconnected throughout the island. That would be awesome. Realistically, we can’t afford Kapolei to Middle Street. Also realistically, we’ll also not be able to afford the maintenance cost of whatever we build. This has been an ill conceived, poorly managed project from the beginning and now the taxpayers will end up holding the bag, of unpaid bills, regardless of what is built.
20 miles with 21 stations? thats just dumb.
Rail Cost is paid from Hawaii residents who have “Tax Excise Licenses” most people don’t have one!
The “Tax Excise License” (very few have one) are required to pay “.005%” percent to the State of Hawaii for “Rail Project”. That’s 1/2 of one percent! That’s a very small amount. Example: say 1/2 of 1 percent of $10,000.00 is equal to $50 dollars! That’s it and look at the HUGE benefit the whole community receives!!
The Federal Government is paying most of it!
Every strong economy has this vital infrastructure “an efficient system that can move people and goods! Take a look at poor countries they all don’t have efficient transportation systems!
Any leader that doesn’t support having a system that can move people efficiently and timely is fooling you or has no idea what it takes to support a robust economy!
“The Federal Government is paying most of it!”
Oh Cindy……..me thinks you need another cup of coffee or something.
You posted this exact thing yesterday. Copy and paste. Reminds me of that other paid poster.
Welcome to the islands Cindy. I assume you have never purchased anything here except for in the military commissaries and exchanges. If you had you would have observed that “Tax” entry on the bottom of your receipt.
Another Gruber voter. sigh.
If you spent $10,000. at costco today, $50. would go to Rail. If you spent $10. for 4 hot dogs then .05 cents go to Rail. Ok.
The population of Hawaii, is about 1.4 million people.
The number of registered voters, is probably, at best, 1/4 that number.
The number of people, used for this survey, is about 400.
All of the people of Hawaii ? Just the registered voters of Hawaii ? Just the people you know, who will answer, in a specific direction ?
If you knew anything about statistical sampling surveys you would know they are within plus or minus 5 percent accurate. Go read up on it and get smart instead of continuing your ignorance.
An samplings can be manipulated.
This poll was of the PRP worker who “thought” they were going to get jobs from the rail.
BINGO!
SA should post a poll. Probably get closer to the truth in regards to popular opinion.
Yup, just as I thought. 64% says ” All the Way”. That’s a landslide.
Taken from the same poll that asked the question, do you think the homeless situation has improved.
401 people doesn’t even fill one section at Aloha Stadium. There were way more people at Shirokya’s opening a couple weeks ago. What nonsense!
i was there at shirokiya that day, cheap beer…..
Ha, you were the one who said this about Ward Research and this same poll yesterday when it showed voters wanted Charles Djou instead of Kirk Caldwell:
“NanakuliBoss says: July 17, 2016 at 9:28 am
Ward Research Polls? Oh yeah we know the results of the past polls. Not very accurate.”
You pro-rail cheerleaders don’t care about the truth at all, do you?
Yeah kala, all the NO gang was jumping yesterday. Today crying. Talk about hypocrites.
Seems to me that anti-railers want this project stopped just so they gloat about it and say it didn’t work; and are perfectly fine with sticking the taxpayers with a half-finished system.
There are 13 candidates for Mayor. How come only 3 are listed?
Poll are and can be skewed however which way you’re trying to achieve your goal. Put on the ballot and see.
I hope all these people who want rail to go all the way to Ala Moana ride the rail and don’t just want the “other guy” to ride it.
Knock it down, voter urges.
What? Hawaii already has the worst business climate in the country, let’s make it worse by stopping rail along with the super ferry, TMT and HEI ….
Rail is all together different from what you mentioned.
Vote Republican. Enough of the Democrats.
Yes,les vote for republiNOcan.
jus’ waiting for UKU’s next post. Or is he trying to find out who the hell is going to fund the thing past the stadium !!
I think if they start putting up the rail stations and people can see – they are more willing to pay more taxes. I don’t understand how the budget can be so inflated when the contractor bid for the job – he shouldn’t be increasing the amount as he goes along. If that is the case then anyone can say they can build a portion for $100,000 and then keep asking for more money.
Finish building rail to Ala Moaana, and operating rail, at any cost, including a permanent GET for rail and an increase in property taxes.
“willing to pay more taxes” ?!?!?! I hope you’re speaking for yourself because you’re not speaking for me.
This poll and results are nonsense. Why? Instead of emphasizing that rail should be built to Ala Moana, the emphasis could just as well have been no more local tax dollars for rail. The two are incompatible. I think most voters want to reign in spending and could care less about Ala Moana – that is except for the developers. Pushing on through Dillingham Blvd will mean more tax dollars, higher GET or higher property taxes. Again, it’s a nonsense poll as you can’t have both. The only viable candidate who will stop spending increases for rail is Charles Djou. The other two main candidates, Caldwell and Carlisle, were given their chances and failed miserably. Vote Djou.
This survey should’ve included a questions; 1) Are you a daily commuter who currently drives into Honolulu? 2) Will you ride this fixed rail system”?
Hopefully you have a lot of honest people, LOL.
Caldy must have taken Marcel to lunch and golf to have this article written. I don’t know anyone in PC or Waipahu that even wants rail.
We need to think far into the future – many decades in the future. Our population will be greatly increased and rail will be the only way to get past traffic congestion in the urban corridor. Filling ham will look much different from how it looks today. Transit oriented development will bring more residential apartments of a higher density along the rail route. The rail infrastructure in town needs to be completed now so that we will be prepared for our growing population of a world class city. The longer we take to build the more it will cost. We need to focus more on the future rather than today.
Sorry Dillingham.
“”Filling Ham will look different than today.” People won’t be able to afford ham when rail is operating.
It’s the only way to be ready for the future. We must invest in the future TODAY.
Buying a car or building rail is not an investment. It’s an expenditure.
It’s infrastructure, which means that rail will provide the means for people to travel efficienty throughout the urban core.
It enables future growth in the urban core. When we benefit more then what we put into the project in this case rail, then we have invested in the future.
Without rail, our children and grandchildren have no future.
Total lies by wiliki. The rail doesn’t go to the urban core.
“”We need to think far into the future – many decades in the future.””
Yes, we’ll be paying 30 million dollars a month for rail operations. The GE tax is Hawaii will be 6% and we’ll have high property taxes and the highest tax burden in the entire US. Our children and grandchildren will be leaving Hawaii in droves to find a place to live where they aren’t paying for the mistakes (rail) of previous generations.
Nope…. with rail and high density development about rail stations we will finally get costs down for housing and transportation in Hawaii. For most people these are horrendous costs.
The development around rail stations and in the urban core will greatly increase out tax base for the city and our major homelessness problem will be a thing of the past.
There will be plenty of new resort development on Oahu out in West Oahu and new companies in the diversified economy will be located out here as well – where most of the people on the island live.
wiliki, you’re full of it again. Nobody is going to want live around a rail that goes nowhere.
Keolu needs a better crystal ball, He says mine is dirty. Fire Keolu.
Caldwell is doing an outstanding job. He wants to finish rail as planned and will get the money to do it.
Too bad Kirk’s going to be unemployed soon.
Baloney. People will vote for Caldwell rather that Djou because people want rail. Djou doesn’t want rail. Like Ben, he wants to kill it.
Total BS. Djou has never mentioned stopping the rail project. Another wiliki LIE.
When did we vote??????
Never.
The whole thing should have been street level. We are wasting money with elevated guideways. All elevated guideways do is increase work for material suppliers and construction workers mostly coming from out-of-State.
I noticed the two “people on the street” are Kailua-Windward residents…….and proponents of rail. Wonder if the CAVE NIMBYs from Kailua were the one’s polled.
Shows again the wisdom of the Public. They are right from a common sense business perspective– makes no sense to stop it at Middle Street. Take a fresh look at completing it and the funding and see if there are other reasonable terminals besides Ala Moana. Maybe make some other changes. We really can afford a project like this with a long time frame with costs spread out. Stopping at Middle Street might be one of the worst things they could do. Who suggested that anyway? Get rid of them and get some solid leadership in to get this done. Lots of sunk costs, but those are irrelevant at this point– it is all about what we do next and what steps have the most cost benefit and stopping the pronect at Middle Street is not the answer.
After Rail goes belly up, my good friend Bill Gates will get it for pennies on the dollar, extend it to Waikiki/UH and he’ll keep the fares…fair, ya?
Put in on the ballot rather than these hand picked pollsters.
Exactly. I ask the real people with common sense, those at work or your neighbors, friends. Their response-what a joke, that’s bs, what a waste. No takers to build to Ala Moana Center. Most say build until Middle, a few to the stadium, none for tearing it down.
This is a lie to the voters……………. just like the original vote for rail was a fraud. Stop rail when every penny originally allotted for rail and stop it right on the spot/PERIOD.
Caldwell another one term mayor.